Four Letters

Welcome to Fusion Talk with Anouk and Steve. So you are estp. I am estp, Extra sensory Typical person.

Almost right.

Almost right.

Almost right.

Ah, okay, so what does it stand for?

Let me get my sheet with it.

All right, folks, so yes, welcome to Fusion Talk. Nook and Steve are in the house, we're at size studio and we are busy recording podcast number 29. 29?

Yes.

Did you ever think we do 29?

No.

Marin and I are always amazed at how many we get. Numbers to 29.

Don't think about numbers. We're just having fun.

That is true too.

So you wanted to know where ESTP is standing for Extraversion, Sensing, Thinking, Emperor Saving, and what's the last?

Perceiving, Perceive, Persuading.

No, perceiving.

Perceiving. Perceiving, like perception.

All right,

Ah, yes, good, good, good. Well, I am a enfp. An energetic not person. No, that's not really true. That was naughty.

That was gambling.

There's an F in there. But we won't go into that subject. We'll leave that one be. I'm an enfp, which makes me an extroversion, intuition, feeling and perceiving kind of person. And we are going to today talk about people and the kinds of people, the way they think, and how it's important to understand a team and the team dynamics. That's what we're trying to do.

We are.

So as long as the screen stays.

As long as the screen stays on. Yes. We prepared ourselves a little bit different for this one. We did a few post its, but most of the time we have it on the screen now.

Try to save the world by not printing paper out.

True. So yes, we are going to talk about how people think. And to prepare ourselves, we did some tests to know which color we are, but not really doesn't. Didn't give really the color. It was giving more definitions about what you are, what kind of person you are.

Yeah, it's the Myers Briggs. I'm sure people are hearing. They're already saying it. Oh, they did the Myers Briggs. I'm sure a lot of people already know that. So. So that is pretty cool. It's something that, I'm not a huge believer in, but I do use it and it's one of those witchcrafty kind of things because it kind of is. Right. You answer. How many questions did you have? 20 or 30?

no. 141.

141, yes. Wow.

But it was quite easy. So it most, most of the time, what do you feel best with about seeing about yourself. And then I had two words.

and you choose which one was most accurate.

Yeah, yeah. So that's. So it's quite easy going. It's. You can do it very fast.

But it's amazing that two words 141 times can give you the stuff that we got out about people that kind of is amazingly. Right.

True. and also the questions comes back so slightly different but always coming back to the same point to see how well you know it and how often you say different things. I'm guessing.

So we're going to have some fun with our profiles. so we can see what we did and what we got up to. and then we're going to talk about some of the benefits. I use this a lot with my team. I use it both with the management team that I'm a member of and I use it a lot with my team that I manage. and we did it for really about our own personal perception, our own learning. So did you learn anything from doing this?

a little. I didn't have the time well enough to go through entire documentation. But with all we see here on the screen, this I will probably. This I'm going to use for our image with the podcast instead what we have normally. Okay. So people can see it. What is in here. It's really seeing a lot about who I am.

That's true. Cuz it says pain in the ass. Which is very intuitive. No it's not. It's on yours. 141 questions to find out something. I could have told them anyway. I knew somebody was going to have to get that one in quick somewhere so it had to be me.

But I do need to say I laughed a lot with yours as well, especially the one that is giving you stress.

Okay. So let's first of all talk about teams that we're in now. You're a member of a lot of teams.

Yes.

Because you're still contracting an independent consultant and stuff like this. And those teams don't always work well together, do they?

No.

Like actually we could kind of quote a bit of an example today where you had some work to do tomorrow that had to get cancelled because bunch of people really didn't talk to each other, understand each other and started to get a bit frustrated and angry because things didn't work out the way they're supposed to work out.

True.

Now I don't know whether personality traits could have, could have, you know, resolved some of those things because they're physical problems but trying to find the right people to deal with it was something that you struggled with a bit today.

Yeah. Yeah. Especially because, a lot of people were already on holiday and you don't want to get people bothered in their holidays. You don't like it yourself. So I tried to work around it, but at least we had to call somebody in his holiday to get more information and to get what we needed. But, yes, communication is a big part of it.

It is, yes. No, that is true. That is true. it's also interesting as to what people perceive as a team that works well.

Yes.

so often a team that plays well together will work well together, quite typically. but if you get a group of kids, even at school, you will get different personalities, but they'll still all kind of work. And, you know, there'll be the quiet one. I have changed the power settings on this to stop it. Keep it doing that. Oh, look, disco.

yeah, but have you changed the power settings on the battery or only when you are plugged in.

Oh, that's a great question.

I didn't follow what you were doing, but.

Oh, you weren't checking me.

No. You're a big boy. You can do things. You're on your own.

I can.

so let's see what you.

What did I do? I went to, sleep hibernation and timeouts, and I just set to turn my screen off after an hour.

Yes. On, plugged in.

Where did it say plugin?

You don't see the words plugged in.

Oh, I do now. Yeah.

And on, battery. It's in three minutes.

Okay.

So you need to change the on battery.

Ah, there we go. You're right. I did it in a rush. I didn't read it properly. I just saw the first thing. Let's go and have a look at my traits to see why I do that.

So that's actually something I should do.

You should have done this for me. Yes. That would have saved so much time and it would have been right.

Don't close this document, please.

There we go. So, I am a imaginative motivator. So does it say anything there about, checking and double checking before I press buttons Now? you see, in my frustration list, too many details frustrates me.

Yes.

So I don't do detail. But we. Everybody knows that I'm an 8020 person.

Yeah, we know that.

So, distrust. Now, thought is lack of. Am I rude? No, rudeness frustrates me. That's true. yeah. Too many projects once we can come to those kinds of things. so yes, I'm, I'm a person, not a technical person. Even though, you know, there we go. That's why. Yeah, too many details. That's why I pressed the wrong thing.

But imagining the motivator, you are really able to motivate people to do things and to learn more. So that is very much true.

This is actually quite true. I will literally, if I can find it, read you from a team's message that I was ah, party to today, because of some work that I needed to do. so where are you? here we go. So, I'm involved in, in some joint venture type stuff and I had to create a document on how we were going to deal with the accounts and yesterday we were talking about the tight deadline. So I said okay, after yesterday's meeting, do I really need to get this document done that you were going to do today? Well, yeah, the sooner the better really. yesterday's deadline was sharp so the sooner we get those things done, the better. for the, for the elements that are realistic. That's it. Okay. So we're still sticking to the deadline. No worries. This is all possible from my end anyway. The problems are really in Patrick space and communications. But you'll have it by mid morning. So he says, how do you do it? You start by saying we're going to stick to the deadline and then you say you'll have it by midday tomorrow because deadline was end of today. It says. I have to say it had lots of smiley faces on it but it says smooth talker. Smooth talker up there. Persuasive. It is persuasive. Smooth talker. A great skill to have towards the ladies. That was quite funny.

Boy.

Well, but my, my characters, my ENFP talk about persuasiveness talk, about friendly, versatile.

it also talks about chastic, spontaneous.

Yeah, all of those things. but yes, and obviously smooth talking bastard needs to be added to the list.

Making sure that they added to it.

Yeah, yeah. That's what my ex wife says to me as well all the time.

Oh boy. It's going to be one of those evenings.

But it is, it is, it is a skill that I know and it's a skill that I use not to deceive people because that's not in my, really isn't in my nature but in, in terms of helping people develop and move forward in my team, getting them to understand, you know, what needs to be done when they don't understand. The swift slap around the head is my backup strategy. You know, listen to what you're being told. But, Yeah, but generally, I guess smooth talking, or at least persuasiveness is a key thing.

Yes.

Smooth talking. You're not going to forget that, are you? No, I didn't think you would. I didn't think you would.

As you can see, I'm an energetic problem solver.

yes.

And I do like some of the words that are in mine as well.

This is on the positive one, isn't it?

Yeah, the positive ones. enthusiastic. I think we all know that I am flexible.

Yes, yes, I think that's true. You are. You basically make sure that you keep people as happy as possible.

Yeah, that's something I really would like to try. And, I do think it's important as well, especially in the role that I'm doing. So practical. Yes, I am practical. Try to get the practice, or get the information first before going somewhere.

That is true. We do travel a lot together and you've always got the details. Whereas I'm the day before thinking, where the hell's my ticket?

Something that is in there, which I find a little bit strange, is fun loving.

You're not fun loving. Is that what you think?

I don't know. I don't know what I mean with it in this context.

You love fun. You like team events, you like working with people. You're part of the community.

I am.

So you're loving fun. It's quite obvious. Fun loving.

Yeah. And the last one that I would like to reach out for me is learning from doing. That is so true.

Really?

Yes. M. Oh, you disagree with this one.

I. I think that, Okay, so let's look at some of the negatives for me, and we will come back to that one.

Okay. You don't want to go there now.

No. Do I don't want to go there now? Because I. I do. You do learn from doing. There's no doubt about it. And it's very, very practical. so I suppose in. In some respects that's true, but you also get incredibly frustrated just by going straight in there and doing it and it doesn't work. Yes, Right. But then again, that may well drive you.

Yeah.

You know, so, as you can see in the frustration column, there's goals not resulting from efforts.

Yeah, that's true as well. It's frustrating because then I throw away things and start all over again.

Yeah, yeah. Commitments frustrate you sometimes. It needs to be done by a certain time and you can't make it work.

Sometimes. Yes. Not always. It's also. I see it also as a motivation to do better, but sometimes it's really frustrating.

You know the most accurate one on there. What quick decisions. What would you like for dinner for tonight? Oh, I don't know. What do you fancy to eat? I don't know. You know, we know through the way.

Too well, at yours is making decisions.

Yes.

I stress you out as well.

I don't get frustrated by. I literally do make decisions. I will, I will literally try. I will make a decision and happily fail.

Yeah.

Make the wrong decision and learn from it. And. And I don't get at all frustrated. Problems.

Yeah.

So. But do I get frustrated by too many projects at once? Yes, I do. But my enthusiasm means that I do that to myself all the time.

Yeah. So something that, should be in both of our items is routine.

Routine. What? The frustration of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, tell me about it.

So, they described it at mine, but not at yours. But I do know that it frustrates you as well.

Yeah. I mean, it does say somewhere in here, procedure, procedures. So procedures frustrate me. and I don't mind process. Process does need to be in place. but I am also a big believer in, if it works, break it.

Yep.

Because if it works, you want it to be better. It's the only way you can do continued improvement.

That's why I asked you today to try to break the workflow that I created for you.

Yes, you did. and I will, break it or try and break it. It will be rock solid. Of course it will be. but, but yeah, that's cool. Yeah. The frustration ones. Long term planning. I do believe in long term planning, but I also believe in agility. So I believe in strategy. But. But the journey to it is. Is, sometimes the way to go. Go on. What are you looking at? You've seen something you want to laugh at? Mundane tasks.

Yes.

Boring crap. Can't stand it.

Sometimes it's needed. Boring crap.

Yeah, but. But there are some people. again, my ex. Wife. You're also very good at it. Moraine's, also quite good at it. You know, you just go, I've just got to do it.

Yes.

But I think I don't have to do this. Get somebody else to do it. You know, I really cannot focus on mundane, regular tasks. And that's because my strength actually is about imaginative motivator. So it's about creative and creative energy. It's about chaos over control. So, yeah, I don't have dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb. doesn't work for me. I'm already going dum da da, dum dum da da da dum.

So you are making music.

Yeah, I'll do anything except the regular boring stuff, and I know it. For years I've known it's one of those things.

Yeah. So we both know we see ourselves in this. All of these words that I are here.

Yeah.

So.

So let's talk about team building for a moment or two, or let's talk about negotiating or let's talk about collaborating. I mean, all of these things we are talking about as needing to have the right people to, to do the job. So, for example, I think that, there's a few items in your list that do not me make you a good negotiator. For example, I know negotiators is on there, but I've, I've seen you in a conversation with people and you are prone to changing your mind in the process and accepting what they say instead of necessarily sticking. I know what you know it's right if you think it's right. There's no change in you. I get that. so sometimes that sort of problem solver, I want to get it solved, which means get to the end of it without necessary and compromise on something. Whereas I won't. All right. I mean, that idea of, independence, that kind of, authenticity value, authenticity persuasiveness basically means that I can smooth talk people into getting to the point where I need them to get to. I used to teach negotiation. It's great fun. But you always need a negotiator in your team. Yeah, yeah, you were looking for one today because you had to talk to the client and deliver some bad news. And you're going, okay, this is not for me to do. I need to go and find somebody that can understand them and talk to them and do what needed to be done.

I didn't mind to talk with the clients.

No, I know that.

It was just that the company that I do the work for that is working with a project manager of another company, and that project manager guides the team of another company that is delivering the work. And then you had the customer as well, so.

Yeah, so you weren't in the right place for it, and that's fine.

To which person do I need to go? Do I need to go to the project manager or, to the other company? Or to.

And that's what I was trying to say.

That was not clear for me.

You needed to be able to get that together. But equally your rear, your enthusiasticness, your direct problem solving. You wanted to talk to the client to be able to do what needed to be done to try and make this work.

And at the end I did.

Yeah. Yeah.

I had a conversation with client directly.

So and there's certain amount of leadership in that, in that process. Whereas I would have just phoned them straight away because I'm always transparent if I can be. Do I transparent on there anyway, honesty, authenticity. I value authenticity.

M. Cooperative.

It's spontaneous. It's not the same cooperative, is there? Yeah, that's true. perceptive. but, but I am very transparent with people. I I'm just very open and honest as much as I can be. and then basically that works for me because I can. They, they understand why I can't accept their position, for example. Yeah, so, so it's all part of the fun, but it's a part of the team thing then is that you really need to know where the skills are around you that you, that you can work at. So I, I'm a member of a senior, senior IT team. And in that team, my CIO values quite strongly this whole personalities and he purposely puts a team together that is not going to work well together.

Yeah, yeah.

Because he wants that discussion. He believes the best way to get to the right result is to have that discussion. So for example, a few years ago, we started looking at moving our identity provider because of costs of the third party one we were using and not the Microsoft one. So we went down the line of setting up with people projects to go and move it. It was all agreed, blah, blah, blah. And then somebody went, you know, why don't we just go back to our original one and see whether they'll drop the project price because tell them we're going to leave them. So they did. And then these people really bent over, touch their toes and says take whatever price you like. And so literally we quoted a price and so we then had to go and backtrack on the whole project and somebody started doing it on me today. My team have been working for about seven or eight or nine weeks now on a new Internet, proxy service. and it's got to do a number of new services and things. and we kind of, we're at the POC level and all of a sudden one of the leaders who. Oh, we should go back and see whether we can get a really cheap price. No, it's not about cheap price now. It's about the team are motivated, they made the decision, they did the assessment and everything else. but so yes, it kind of, frustrated me a little bit. But that level of disagreement means that we do get most things discussed.

Yeah.

And it was quite interesting. So yes, I come across as nearly. If we take the four colors, so green, yellow, red, green, yellow, red and blue. basically I'm 25% across. Nearly all of them I might have. I am more red dominant. So I am quite assertive. so can you please not sit like that? So I am quite assertive. But it's only a 1% difference and so it basically means I can. I'm quite patient with most people except people driving BMWs. But in my team, so in that team we're very different. We have very blue people. They frustrate me. But I also know that if I need some detail doing, I go to that blue person.

Yes.

And so I say, hey, where you go? But then if I give them, if I say, hey, I'm going to do this. And they start stepping in and start checking and double checking everything. I think what a waste of time. This has already been done. So I can't have it both ways. Sometimes I want them to check, in other times I get frustrated by it. But that's okay. I can live with it.

You know how the people are. And that makes it easier to accept as well.

No, it's easy to collaborate that way too, if you know the way the people are within the team. and people change, by the way.

Yes.

If you did, if you do this in a year's time or time, you'll find a different, kind of.

Probably. Probably. I have done the color ones so many years ago.

Yeah.

So I knew I was doing, by then I was green and blue.

Yeah. So. So that's one, one side of this. And yes, we're just having fun with, with what we're frustrated with and everything else. M. But the other side of this is understanding your customer and understanding your end user or your audience.

Yeah.

And these kinds of tests, you would not go to this extreme. But understanding the different attributes of people means that you get a better read on the user that you're building for or you're creating for. So again, just referencing a, project that we were talking about earlier. It was an organization that deals with very sensitive data. So they had A huge structure of folders and everything else with all kinds of different permissions on there. Because we know that what they're looking for is a level of, you know, assurance that nobody will get to the wrong data.

Yeah.

And that to them was important. However, they were equally frustrated by how complicated it was all of a sudden and needing to be in the right place and what you could and couldn't see and.

Yes.

And all that kind of stuff. So trying to find out where that balance is. So, you know, they're very blue, they're very strict because they feel they need to, you know, they meet me, who's very red and says, stop being such an idiot. You need to do it a different way. You know, you know the kind of conversation you're going to have with people. And if you've got a member of that team that is, you know, more green, more enthusiastic, problem solving and you can kind of say, okay, guys, this is what your problem is, then that person will step in and try and help you solve the problem.

Yes, I know. Something I try all to do all the time.

That is true. It's. I mean, people call it politics in some respects, but it's not. It's about finding a solution.

Yeah. And I do think with everything. You see what we saw in here. And it also helps us to understand our job even better.

It does. So this particular project we were discussing earlier, we know, for example, we could never have, potentially, we could never have you create any team without requesting you just go on and do it and everything else. Because the chaos that I willingly accept, they would not be able to accept to. So therefore, you know that you might say, hey, look, the best way to do this is to do X and Y. But actually I think you're going to struggle with that. So what if we do it this way? It allows you to preempt knowing where they're going.

Yeah, true.

So how do you think you do it? How do you know what the audience is going to be like on a project or a piece of work?

You never know. You, you will know when you have the first conversations with them. So you. What I try to do with a new project is to of course do a little bit research. What are they doing? What I. And then you already know, like, if you go to, ah, accountancy firm, you already know how people will react and on things and all of that. Instead, if you go to a manufacturer there, the people are different that are working there. So the reaction can be different.

Yeah.

And you adapt to that one to what you know up front, but you will never know certain until you have the first contact with people and start to talk with them.

Agreed. So I think part of it is about listening and, understanding the type of business they are and how much, whether it's a detailed business or a creative business. I also think it's about understanding how they store data at the moment and how they look for data and, how much data they have on their laptops, which implies lots of control.

true. I started a new project on, Monday.

Yep.

And that's a migration from SharePoint 2013 on premise, so to the online. So. And we started that and the first thing they asked me. How do you want to do this? Yeah. By running an assessment of your current environment. Why? Yeah, because I need to know what custom web ports you have on there, what workflow, what sharepoint designer workflows you have, or even ninth workflows. You can't tell me everything because you're fairly new to this organization as well. So let's run that assessment, let's see where what is installed and go talk with the teams to see how they work, what the pain points are and what can be improved with doing that migration. So by also explaining them why we do the assessment, they understand it as well?

Yeah, it's part of the process of negotiating and persuasiveness and taking them with them on your project. No doubt about that. So what do you think the perfect combination of a team is then?

A little bit of everything.

Would that mean that nobody ever agrees with everything?

No, people will agree.

Well, some people will just not get involved in the conversation because they're kind of so withdrawn.

Yeah, true. And other people will take over the conversation and, other people will step in and say, stop it here, let's go on to the next, because it will take too long. That's something you will always have. But that's, Sometimes it's bad because sometimes the conversation needs to go on, the discussion needs to keep on going to understand the underlining issue. But sometimes it's just a waste of time.

Well, I think that it is important to have diversity in the team. There's no problem. There's no doubt about that in terms of the way people work. it's also good to make sure you have at least one, if not two, detailed people that won't move forward unless they see some solid structure in there. and the other thing is, you don't want too many creative people, otherwise they'll keep Moving the goal posts and moving the goal posts and moving the goalposts because they think they're making it better each time when you're not really having enough time, enough stability in their decision making process.

True.

So I think that that's fairly important.

So that's also something we asked to chatgpt how before we started the podcast, how will the imaginative motivator and the energetic problem solving or working together and actually what they were saying was actually quite correct for us.

It works well. Yeah. So obviously you solve problems and high defined solutions and then we managed to build it and put it into play.

Yeah.

and we also have the different perspectives. So you have the technical perspective whereas I have sort of leadership and the business perspective.

Yeah.

So that kind of works out. so yes, I think we bring both sides to the tail to it. It works very well.

True.

Which is why you definitely people should come along to see us speaking towards the end of this year because speaker season starts again after the summer. and we are in a number of places.

Yes. The first thing we will do after, in September is the Baltic Summit.

Baltic Summit in Gardenia. No, Gdansk. It's a little place close to Guardia I think or giddy or something.

No idea.

Whenever we talk about it on the other podcast, Maureen is always going to. And off it comes. He rolls it out. But anyway, yes. So near Gdansk, and that's the Baltic summit where we're running a workshop.

Yeah. So I'm looking forward to that workshop. it's something we saw a lot in our jobs. So we are going to provide a workshop. back to basic, something like that. Going back to the basics of SharePoint Online and power platform.

Yeah. The things that you need to have in place that are basic starter stuff and what you need to know to get started.

What is a content type, how do you set it up, Best practices, what are basic power automate flows you should have in your organization to make it work better.

Yeah. How you set up the governance and control, how you make sure it doesn't go out of hand. So that's going to be a workshop. It's going to be a hands on workshop.

True.

we're not quite sure yet how we're going to do the hands on part of the workshop, but we'll find a way.

You will do the docking, I will do the demos and the hands on.

Exactly that.

I'll persuade them for people around there. It's the 12th of September.

Nice.

And then we are going back to some history.

We're going back to history. Yes.

Yes, we are going back to Bletchley Park.

Bletchley Park.

I love that, place. It's history. So you weren't there last year, but last year they did some big renovation. So they changed.

I helped pay for the roof.

Yeah, roofs and. Yeah, I thought windows as well that they were doing. So probably.

I know they've been doing a fair amount of it. So if you've not been to Bletchley park, it's in the uk. this is where Alan Turing bought his first logic solving machine for code breaking during the war. and they've recreated that, it's called the Bomb. and, they're basically, you can see that working there. They've also got the first physical computer, they're called Colossus. But also they've got a lot of hardware that wasn't even around when you were born that I was working on. So they. Things like Palm Pilots and some of the first smartphones and some of the first not so smartphones. so, yeah, so the National Computing center, it's in Bletchley Park. It's actually During World War II, it was a code breaking, top secret place. and, yeah, so that's where it's at. It's a really really, it's a really.

Really cool place to be. Yeah. So, also there we are doing something new.

yes, we are.

I just looked up the title. Oh, great.

Did you? The Imperial. The idea is we have to get this one, turned from a set of notes to an actual session. Yes, to any session. This one.

So we are going to talk about the 10 essential tips to Kickstart power platform governance.

Yes. Which will rapidly turn into 20.

Yeah. Do you want, do you want to become a power platform, MVP as well?

You're only allowed to be two, aren't you?

I don't know.

Yeah, you're only allowed to be two MVPs or two subjects. So I think it's two. Anyway, I won't make a power platform MVP, so. But there you are.

Yeah.

So, yeah, so that's, Bletchley park and the date.

25Th of September. Yeah, it's a midweek, so it's not in the weekend like the other ones. Yeah, but that's fine.

No, it's well worth going to there. Even if you don't do Bletchley park, go and take a trip with the family there and, to the uk. It is, it is incredibly interesting. for you, for the people listening here. Of course, the rest of your family, might not be so engaged, but, it is worth doing. It's pretty cool.

We will see a lot of, well known people again there.

Yeah, I'm sure we will. You're looking at another story. Yeah, the usual crew.

Yeah, a few of them. Few new ones, which is fine. Always fun to have the new people in there.

Yeah, that's a great venue. So that's Bletchley on the 25th of September. And then finally we're going to Croatia.

Yes. To Zagreb.

And that's in October.

Yes, it's the 4th of October. I was last year in Zagreb.

Oh, yes.

It's a small collapse day. It's not, that very big, but it's so much fun doing because they try to keep everything close together so not far apart. and you just have fun conversations.

With everyone in Zagreb. When I was at Baltic Summit last.

Year, I think so as well.

Yes, yes. So that's cool. And, we're doing one of the events, we've done this two or three times now where we take a case study, around PowerApps. and we literally look at how that business transformation took place.

Power and what is required around Power Automate.

Power Automate, Yeah, Power Automate. Not power apps. So. So there you go. So, yes. So if you want to come and see us. So it's, 12th of September at the Baltic Summit. That's actually a great trip. So lovely.

Never been there.

Yeah, it's really nice. It's very, very nice. and then on the 25th of September in the UK at Bletchley and on the 4th of October in Croatia. @ the moment, there might be a few more added, there might not. We'll see how.

We will see how it goes.

Yeah. So. So that's been needed. I don't really need to do a system update.

No. Because then you maybe have the recording out anymore.

Well, actually, I think it's.

So do it afterwards.

Please stop recording. So it is still going. So that's fine. It thinks it's going anyway, so fine. All right, cool.

Yeah.

So that was an interesting subject, actually. Kind of interesting subject.

It is interesting.

it's not quite as creative as tattoos.

No. But if you log in on their website, after you've done the assessment, you can read everything of everyone, of the names and what people, what type of people are. And then you can sometimes see, oh, the person I'm working with. That one is that. And that one is that and that one is that. So you learn from that one.

You see the traits of people. Yeah, no, that's true. I mean, and that's the point about any kind of team, is everybody's going to add value to it. All. Right. You know, I mean, obviously you get the kind of people that sometimes are just so negative it doesn't work. And sometimes you get two people that really just can't be in the same room at the same time. So some adjustments are often needed, but you basically look at your team and look at the positive traits and what they actually deliver and bring to the table. and I have to say, I love team management and team lead and actually really making the team, growing the team, changing the team.

Yeah. I will read up to all of those personalities, for myself, because trying to understand people even better.

Yeah, yeah.

That's my goal. So I will try to read up with it. I only need to find the time.

Yeah. What does it say about time? Anything? practical realities frustrate you so not having enough time. I can see that. yeah, routine is something that frustrates you, apparently, but I know that's not the case, but, you know, it's a bit like there are more than 12 types of people in the world and yet there are only 12 horoscopes and everybody is one of those 12, you know, and you're never going to describe every day what's going to happen to 1/12 of the population because of where they're at. And a lot of this is the same.

Is it true that you only have one horoscope?

I'm guessing with the look on your face, the answer to that question is no.

Because if I look at my birth date and you Google for the horoscope, some people say this and some people say that.

So that's even clearer then.

Yeah.

Oh, well, I. I don't know. It's, But you know what I mean. If you look at the local newspaper horoscopes, there's 12 of them. But you, you can. You're never going to have people not going to feel the Same way of 12. No, this is the same.

True.

These are all traits that you may or may not have. you. But you will have many of them or you'll be able to see how they, affect you. And some of them are really long words you don't understand. Gregarious, apparently. I'm gregarious.

Yeah. I think we need to ask something, someone what this means.

So. Yeah, so we'll See, and I, yeah, it's all good stuff. but at the end of the day, but remember, there are tools and techniques, which is what we really wanted to deliver on this message, that will allow you to read your audience, allow you to read the team, allow you to sort of try and go in the direction you think is right or help them understand something or build something that works the way they work and think.

Yeah. And, make sure that you are able to understand why people react at some kind of way.

Understand why. I agree entirely. No, I understand. All right, so, Steve Dolby, I am going to say goodbye. Thank you for listening. All right, remember, if you want to look at what type of person I am, just search Google Myers Briggs and put in ENFP. So it's Mr. ENFP signing out. Steve is saying goodbye.

Goodbye, everyone.

No, no, no. Just a minute, just a minute. Tell everybody who you are so they can look you up.

I am estp, but I will make sure people know this because I'm going to put this in the, image of the podcast.

Yeah, but if you want to, if you want to just get online in Google and look at Maya Briggs, estp, just tell us whether you think we are close to ESTP for Anok and ENFP for me and see whether you see some of those traits. And if you want to, why don't you set yourself up on Myers Briggs and have a go yourself?

Yeah.

Let us know what you are. That will be fun.

That will be fun.

Bye.

Bye.