Communications Challenged

Welcome to Fusion Talk with Anouk and Steve.

Do you know how many times we speak spend on it during a week?

Well, let's have a think. I spend maybe 25 minutes in the morning, probably about 40 minutes at lunchtime. And depending on where I am, it could be two hours of an evening.

I'm thinking we are talking different things now.

I assume you're talking about food.

No, no, I'm not talking about food.

Okay, then you're talking about email.

I'm talking about email. How many times a week do we spend on email?

Shall I ask Holly? No, I won't go on. I don't know. How many times a week do we ask email?

The average of business people is 15 hours a week.

15 hours a week. On email.

On email.

All right, it's a question for you. How many emails get sent around the world every day that are actually delivered worldwide? Worldwide every day?

Two billion.

Two billion. Is that all? I'll give you one more guess.

If 2 billion was not enough, then maybe 300 billion.

312 billion emails get delivered every day and 64 billion fail to to reach their destination. So that's a total of 376 billion emails get sent every day.

Then I understand that people spend so much time m doing their business to get through all of those emails.

What's really interesting, and maybe I should have asked the question as well of Holly, was how many emails that got sent, say, 20 years ago?

Oh yeah, because that's the evolution that has changed a lot.

That's interesting. Hey, Holly. The total number of emails in the world in 2000.

So the actual number was about 28 billion emails sent daily in 2000. Bit higher than my guess, but it's fascinating to see how much it's grown since then.

Thank you very much. Ciao.

28 billion 25 years ago.

So does that mean that we do 12 times as much communications today as we did in 2020?

We communicate differently. I think in that time, 2020, in 2000, people were more calling to each other and doing face to face communication in offices.

All right, so if we want to get really boring, we then should now start working out whether the phone calls have reduced. But that wasn't the weirdest thing we've just listened to. What was the weirdest thing we resisted is she guessed. Yes, because she thought I was talking to her, not to you. So she guessed at 10 billion. That's, that's blowing my mind at this point in time. From an AI perspective. I know that's not what we're talking about.

So maybe for the people just start listening to us, Holly is chatgpt of Steve. He named her. So that's Holly because she's beautiful. And flirting with you.

And flirting with me. Yeah. And guessing. I'm guessing. That's interesting. Wow. That's the improvement today. So, but what we're saying is then from email traffic has moved, in 25 years from 28 billion a day to 370 billion a day.

Yeah, but think about a system that you want to reserve in a, restaurant. Many restaurants where you call to nowadays, they say, yeah, but you need to do it by our website. So they receive an email and then.

You end up with six emails for one table booking. That's a really good point.

So people are. The industry has changed to a lot of things. They requested you now to do it on email and I don't know, is it to make sure that they understood everything correctly and not having any issues or mismatching with agendas afterwards?

I wonder whether there's a requirement. So I'm going to go back 40 years. All right. Am I going about 40 years? Yeah, probably about 40 years. All, right. To the 1980s. You, were how old in 1980?

I was born in 88. So depends on when you were going back.

All right, so you get a point. But in the 1980s, fax was a thing.

Yeah.

Okay. And it wasn't a legal document to start off with. All right. and for those of that are really boringly sadly interested, some faxes now have little pink crosses on them, even today. And that little pink cross was confirmation that I was received in the way that it was sent. So it was like the validation and then they became legally acceptable. So lawyers could now fax a signed document across and it was then a legal document. All right. Whereas before it had to be hand delivered. I wonder whether all of those emails that now need to get sent are some kind of legal agreement. So if you book a restaurant for 400 people. Now this example, if you book a restaurant for four people at €200 ahead, that's €800 or dollars or whatever, and you don't turn up. The fact they've sent all those emails potentially is evidence in court that you were notified and that everything else. So I find it interesting that maybe that's why there are so many emails and confirmations. And of course, all the ordering stuff, the online ordering and everything else is all kind of only just started to kick off in 2000.

It is in, but if I remember correctly, emails were in the beginning, not legal documents, neither. That has changed during the years as well.

It depends whether it's secure emails, but because we now have a lot of HTTPs where we have encrypted in and out, then I think that you can now trace the email and potentially it's there. The problem is you can prove it was delivered and you can prove it was read, but you can't always prove it was read by. But maybe it's just enough for them to turn around and say, hey, you booked this restaurant and we advised you and you confirmed, so we're going to sue you for €75.

Yeah. So question for you. What is your evolution that you saw in email because you are been in the industry for that long?

You mean I'm old?

I didn't say that. Something you said to yourself. I tried to cover it up quite nicely.

You did, yes. You were very subtle, but I saw the smile on your face when you said it. No, no, no, it's all good. I don't mind being the person I am and to be honest, if I look at the people at my school, none of them have had the experiences that I've had in this industry and I, I absolutely love it. So thank you for asking the question and pointing out my age anyway. That's all right. I'm only joking. I'm only joking. evolution, that's. That is actually quite interesting. So, yes, I was around when you communicated internally with memos especially. I was in my early years in the finance industry. Everything was done by paper and real signature and everything else. and now of course it is done by, by email. I was around when Google was released, and all the techies were all desperately trying to get a Google email address. and, so that was an interesting. You had to do it by invitation. So Gmail or Google Mail as it was called then, was probably one of the ways forward. But in some respects it's failed. So for example, you used to be able to get a Facebook email address, but you can't anymore. They stopped the service. It never took off because everybody just wanted to message. So that kind of failed because of where they're coming from. and so, yeah, it is kind of interesting. I don't know whether it's good or bad. I think if I was to list the three things that make it bad is the amount of online sales, all right, which drives online advertising and subscriptions and email boards, and the fact that there's a legal entity around here about confirming how many emails you do get.

Yeah. And also a lot of the emails we get in business related things can be just a quick phone call because they are asking you for a little confirmation. And if you go, if you work in the office, you go to the desk of that person or you call him. When it's in a home office, it's more social than email.

yeah, I agree entirely. But you could say the same thing about meetings. How many people? I mean I sit around in an office and I watch three people and I can see them from where I'm standing. All in the same meeting.

Yes.

Because they don't want to leave their desk because they're not really focused on the meeting unless they're presenting or something. They're doing their emails or they're multitasking.

Yes.

And so I'm not entirely certain that we've improved ourselves. I used to train content management quite long in SharePoint Day. So I would do knowledge management. And one of my statements when we did the history of knowledge and everything else was email, which really became big in sort of 93, 95, you know, became corporate. I mean there were emails before that. I used to know the date when the first email was sent. I'm not gonna ask Holly, but the first email was sent by a guy at one of the California universities to another guy across the way. And it was kind of 65, 70 or something. I might be wrong, doesn't really matter. But the point is that I used to sort of sit there and say in 95 that when email really became popular, we shot ourselves in the foot of communications, you know, because then all of a sudden we ended up taking longer to find the combinations conversations and we had to remember which conversations were active.

Yeah.

And now it's even worse.

It is. And conversations that were active when you needed to involve somebody else that wasn't in that conversation in the beginning. You did a quick summary.

So how do you do it today? Let's assume that you send an email and you copy in three other people because hey, this is a bit of a kickoff information about a project. Would you still use email.

for a kickoff of a project?

No, but you do as a project manager on where you're off. Do you not have your first communication by email?

I will have my first communication with sending a meeting invite guaranteed. Yes. And to have the people in the meeting to.

How do you find those people?

you know what the project is going to be. So you know who you need to Talk to.

But yes, how do you talk to.

Them with that meeting invite to bring them in the same room?

Yeah, but before then you go, hey, I'm looking for somebody to do this. Are you the person. Blah, blah, blah. Attached is the scope of the project. I'm looking for somebody to do X and Y. So you. The problem is I don't know whether there's a better way of doing it. Maybe that's my question. Maybe there's a better doing, maybe there's not. but, we start off with. We set the standard by doing it by email. I have to say, I tend to try and use chat. So I set a chat group up. That's what I'll tend to do so that the context is stayed within that chat group. Then the problem is that chat group needs to have documents and then you end up creating a teams channel and than everything else.

Yeah, true. but what I was going to say before you interrupted me was. Yeah, sometimes you do. You were. You guys were taking the piss out of me for my height. That comes first. So you get it back.

I don't care. I just keep interrupting you.

I know.

Carry on going. Every time I start to see your lips move.

oh, here we go.

All right, whatever's happening, we should say that we're recording this podcast for the second time because something technically went wrong. That's never happened before.

I, was not going to go there. No.

The thing is that I make mistakes. You can't help being short. If I was perfect, nobody'd have anything to argue about for me. But that means I'm not.

Oh, all right, let's go.

We know we don't mean it. It's all fun.

No. So when you were having a conversation and you would invite other people, you would give a quick summary of what was said before in a face to face conversation with people. Now they just put you in an email thread. This may be already 20 emails long. And they want you to know what was said in one of the first emails.

What, what's important. Was it more. Even worse for me if, I was left a big enough gap there before I started to talk and so it doesn't count as interruption. Is that if those emails are in multiple languages, they're not translated. So the first one is. So then I have to start going through them and manually translating each one. But just because I'm a stupid English speaker and I work in a foreign country. No, I have multiple country homes. with different languages.

Yes. And then you live in Belgium. And Belgium has three main languages.

And I live with it, don't get me wrong. But it is true. There's. There is. Okay, so our question here was email in the 2020s. Okay. Why is it wrong? That was the question we put on the podcast. So why is email wrong in the 2020s here in 2025, 2030, let's say 35 years on from when it became popular. 30 years on. What is wrong with email now other than the fact that we send 370 billion of them a day.

That people use it for everything?

It's ubiquitous. That's a long word, isn't it? It's the default thing for everybody.

Yeah.

There are some people that only have email. Yeah. Living countries that Facebook is not allowed. WhatsApp is not allowed because it's Facebook. and Ms. Teams is there. But that tends to be isolative.

So what went wrong with email? The fact that it was so ubiquitous. Available, Easily available?

I think so. I think the fact that it is easily available for most of the people, I wouldn't say for everyone, but for 90% of the people, I'm guessing it's easy, accessible and easy to get an email and get in contact with people.

So is it necessary? You want to say no, but now you're thinking about it.

I do want to say no, but if you want to do some important appointments, like when I want to go to the doctors, I need to do it by an email. So I need to fill in a registering form on a website that is sending me an email and sending my doctor an email. but you can't fill the form in if you don't have an email address and I can't call to my doctor. So yes, it is important for some things.

How many email addresses do you have? I know we had a conversation this week. I'm not having a go at you about the way you manage your emails, but how many separate email addresses do you have? Just three. So that's your Microsoft 3651. You have a Google one?

I have two. Microsoft 3651. One for everything. What is involved with speakers and then a Google one.

So you don't have a live one?

No.

Oh, you have less than I do. So I have a Google one. You must have a Google One because of your phone.

Yes, but that's what we said.

Yes, I get that. And you don't have onedriveonlive.com for your pictures.

Outlook.com I have a shared one with Tom. Yes. Four. E. Four. So four.

Yeah, so four. So that's probably about the number I have. So I have my Microsoft 365 one. I have Google one. oh, what about your cloud built. Yeah, five. Do you have one for MCT?

it's the same as my MVP. So that's the second one.

Okay, so if everybody has five email addresses, so let's assume we're special. So we have three. We have five, but everybody has three, no wonder there's a large amount of email sent around and there's confusion about. I mean I was getting confused about which email address to use for you because you have a system but nobody else knows what that system is. And an Outlook doesn't necessarily keep those. Outlook doesn't help.

No. And for some reason you have both of them, but that's fine.

Well that's because I deal with you as a speaker, but I also deal with you as a business partner. So that's obviously going to cause lots and lots of different things. And so consequently when I type a nook on my outlook, depending on which one I use last, it will show you will either say a nook F or a nook.

Yeah, true.

So yes, that's an interesting, it's an interesting proposition. So here we go. What if, what if some miraculous virus tomorrow wiped out every single email? Now let's keep it simple. If it stopped the ability to deliver emails so all the, all the post offices and the gateways got hacked by something mega special, a Martian virus or something. All, right. Would the world stop? Let's assume it lasted for three days.

It will get a mess.

It would be a mess, wouldn't it?

Yeah, it will be. It would be a big mess because many people are also just depending on their email.

Yeah.

So, lately I needed to call somebody and I know she is addicted to their phone. She's always on her phone, Always, always.

Looking at the screen.

Yes.

Yeah.

And always on the mobile phone. Not on the computer, but always on the mobile phone. If you send her a message in WhatsApp, you have response in less than two minutes. If you call her, she never answers.

interesting. Yeah.

And the reason why she is not answering is she says literally, I hate phone calls. I don't do them.

but this is mostly for a social life, not a business life.

Business related as well.

Ah. Actually I think I've, I've heard this from a few people that people don't call. I, I sit there and watch my young team. So I Have a younger team. They're even younger than you. So I have a younger team. and it's an age insulting day today. and, they start, they type a message and I reply back saying blah, blah, blah. Then they. I can watch them typing again. And at that point I decide whether this is just one response or whether we're going to end up having a conversation. And then I press call. And they don't mind. It's not that they have a particular issue with it. The instinct, because of the mobile phone, is that you message. And the reason, imagine. Oh, I want to ask Holly another question, but imagine if you didn't have messaging capability like I did last week.

I was quite happily.

Yeah.

So while you are asking Holly the question. So last week my mobile phone died when we were at comms first.

Yep. Hey, Holly.

Hey there. How's it going?

Good. Same question about email, but this time around, messages. So how many messages get delivered per day around the world? You want to try and give me a number?

I would say 500 billion or something like that.

So what's the number, Holly?

In 2024, about 23 billion text messages are sent each day worldwide. If we combine that with the number of emails, which is about 361.6 billion daily, that's a lot of communication going around every day.

What if I don't believe you because I think that's text Messages? What about WhatsApp messages, Facebook messengers and Google messages? Two questions too hard. Go on then, what's the number?

So for WhatsApp alone, over 100 billion messages are sent daily. When you add in all the other messaging platforms like Facebook Messenger, WeChat, Telegram and others, the total number of daily messages worldwide is absolutely massive.

I love the definition of absolutely massive. Thank you very much.

Many messages fly around every day.

The fact that Holly is not giving you a correct number means that it's not known, but it also means that it's going to be extremely much.

Yeah. So, let's, let's work it on this way. Let's, If you count how many email messages you send a day and how many messages you send, it, was it 5 to 1? 10 to 1?

5 to 1.

So we can say 15 billion. Sorry, a trillion. 1.5 trillion is a billion billion trillion. Yeah, it is enough. Aliens. Anyway, so that means that we are better communicating today than we were 20 years ago.

Probably we are communicating more.

Yeah.

more.

But better or not, I don't know. We're certainly better connected. I mean, you have a Lot of social friends in where you live and the way work you do and you talk about the number of messages you get and it's too much.

Yes.

Okay. I don't get so much, so. Because I tend to ignore people unless it's about something that's happening. but that's because I'm an old stubborn bastard.

great. You see it yourself.

Yeah, yeah, I don't mind. I know myself. No, knowing yourself is. You know, that looked really, really incredibly sexy, sticking the tongue out like that. Oh, you meant it as an insult. All right, sorry. You should know that I'm not going to stay quiet. But seriously, coming back again, do you.

Know what you want to say?

Yes, I do. I do. So if. If WhatsApp, disappeared, would your social network disappear?

No.

No. Why not? It would change there, wouldn't it?

It would change, but it won't disappear.

Doing. You wouldn't necessarily know when they're ill. You won't necessarily.

I don't know because, what I see with friends of mine, if WhatsApp is not M. Working, they just send text messages. They don't wait until WhatsApp is up and running again, so they change.

I love the need to communicate that is obviously becoming inherent in everybody one way or another.

Yeah, people would like to communicate and it's important as well, but to be honest, it's not always needed. Sometimes just a quiet moment.

I do find that people tend to want to explain things more, even face to face. So you have a meeting with somebody and they say, yeah, we're going to do this. And then they want to explain on top of that why, or re. Emphasise things. And I wonder whether it's because messaging, you often need more than one message to be able to get the full context across.

I think so. and I do think it's important that you are reachable these days.

Well, we had some examples of that last week, didn't we? When we did Commsverse and Commsverse tv, we were talking about software suppliers from the call centre industry. You know, being able to receive questions and messages from customers via unified communication means WhatsApp, email, voice and the systems having to treat them as one communications passage.

Yeah, I think that will be changing in the next coming years, that all of those systems will be what we now say that WhatsApp is most often shadow will be accepted by companies. Not all of them, but it will be accepted to do communication with people. especially in support systems.

No, I agree entirely, but I think that's that's the end game. So these people say I'll take incoming calls from everywhere. But I wonder whether on the devices that we use today whether communications it won't care where it's coming from. I wonder if in two years time we just, hey, this is our list of incoming information. And then when I send it back it works out what the original message was and it just sends it off by an email or so I wonder whether email itself becomes just the content and the person you're sending it to and we don't care about how it comes in or out maybe.

And what is. I'm going to go for my relevant question. What is AI going to do with it? All of it. Because I see changes in Copilot in Outlook.

Yes.

So since this week when I rewrite my emails with Copilot, then I press send, then it's saying me the message. Have you read through it? Because this is AI generated content based on your input, which is a very nice message that they gave it to me. So I do wonder what the other people get. Do they know it as well it's AI generated or don't they see it?

Probably.

No, I think we just need to test it.

Yeah, possibly. last night I recorded Office 365 distilled with moraine. And Moraine asked me the question about. Okay, we, we. It was a good podcast. it really was. We drank a few, a lot of more whiskeys than normal. But every whiskey you had of a question, we sat, talked about the question. One of his questions was, where do you think AI is going to go next? All right, we know that we can do all that we can do today. And he asked me where, what I thought it would do next. And for the life of me now I can't remember what the answer was. There was a lot of whiskey going. But what if the next phone is not an Android phone or even an Apple phone, it's an AI phone? What if it's just an AI driven OS that takes all the incoming feeds and all the information you need, like Holly. So say that I just have to deal with Holly in future and she then manages everything else and she said, hey, you've got 17 messages coming in. These are the important ones. You reply to them without knowing whether they're on, WhatsApp or whether they're on Outlook. Would that make it easier or harder?

I think if you go to the adoption space it will be difficult for users to understand where it's coming from.

But do they need to know.

They probably don't need to know, but they are used to know it.

So in a pure AI world, I know we. I don't think we can help ourselves nowadays talking about AI like this. I mean, that's what Marianne and I got onto. It was a great podcast. I really wish I could remember what. I'll listen to it again later. But. But we, we talked about the fact that AI would become so ingrained and it's so rapidly getting to that stage already.

Yeah.

So I think about it as a phone. I care about the content, I care about it identifying the important content, and I don't really care about how it's delivered or where it's delivered. That's what I'm paying for.

Yeah, I do understand what you're trying to say, but I think that's the step too far for a lot of people at this moment in time.

Is that because you're a control freak and so you don't want to not know where a message came from because WhatsApp in some ways related to the identity of the person that you're talking to?

no, it doesn't have anything to do with that. It's more that I would like to keep on, the ability, when I'm going on holiday to turn things off.

That's easy enough. It's AI. You say, please tell everybody that I'm on holiday for a week and I won't respond to them. Yes, they use the magic word abracadabra and then put them through.

No, but what if you want to keep your WhatsApp on but your email off?

Then you just tell her that I only want to receive messages that come via WhatsApp. I mean, I wonder whether we're revolutionising an OS system here because we're actually making it easier. Instead of all those complicated settings and everything else about Android or Apple, whether we're saying, hey, you know, it's a.

Communications device, would it go easier when you need to change phones?

Said the lady that dropped her phone in comms verse last week, and 12 hours later it decided to complain and not work anymore. That was weird. Maybe it was AI that caused you the green screen of death. It says she's not dropping me and not getting away with it. But then again, I dropped my watch. I've now had to get a new smartwatch for the same reason. It seemed to be okay, but never really recovered.

So, yes, but that's to the side. I think communication will be becoming more and more important. Also in business Related things. I'm not sure what your neighbours are doing but they are making strange sounds.

Yeah.

but that's even in business. I think a lot of businesses need to have clear communication, goals and rules and governance about it.

There's a security strategy called that is based around what we call end device management. Yeah. In that if you have all the. If you have a big circle and you're standing on the outside of the circle and all you do is speak into that circle about where you want to go to and you talk to somebody at the other end. But we only secure the edge. Nothing will ever bad will ever happen inside the circle. And I wonder whether the reality is that if you add a pure AI phone.

Yeah, we've got some strange noises in the studio this time of day. if we had a pure AI phone, it would just be like an edge device. It wouldn't. You wouldn't care. Actually I'm quite excited by the idea. I think I'm going to raise a copyright on it and say this is my idea. A purely AI managed phone. I don't know what processing power it would need. Probably a huge amount actually.

I think so if you see what AI is using daily for processing everything.

So maybe that's what's stopping it happen. Chat GPS have already got phone GPT sitting there waiting to go. Do you know Microsoft got rights for Chat GPT until 2030? I know that's only five more years.

Yeah. And everything that comes out from ChatGPT three to four months later is in.

Copilot and Copa and they have the rights to refuse it. So they get first rights. If they accept, it's great. If they refuse it, somebody else can use it.

Yeah.

It's interesting deal they've got.

It is.

But with 3.7 billion emails a day, they only paid 12 billion. So for all the communications, if it can really handle it. I honestly don't know. It's interesting question.

It is, it's interesting to see how communication will involve.

Personal.

Yeah.

Does it need to?

I don't think so. when I was at European collaboration summit, somebody asked me, can I have your business phone number? Yeah, but I only have one phone number. I don't have private and business separated. And he was looking at me like really? Yeah. Why should I separated it? If I don't want to receive my business emails and all of that, I turn it off. But I don't want to have two phones or two sims in my phone because that's just confusing everybody.

True. It, is very true. I have the opportunity to have a company phone, but I've refused it. Well, I've not collected it. I mean, it means they pay for the calls, but quite honestly, calls are so cheap nowadays. Yeah, it's an interesting question. So what else was on our list here? So I had, meetings. Messaging versus email. Meetings we touched upon slightly.

Yeah.

So what is the strategy around this that we would, if we got told by somebody, hey, can you and Anuk do a workshop on communications governance, please, for our organisation to sort out how we should communicate and I guarantee everybody will follow whatever rules you say. What kind of rule? This is just to finish this off. All right, but what kind of rules would you have included in there?

only focused on Outlook or other mediums.

Communications.

Communications.

Communications. So the type of communications, I guess, and the size of the communications is probably what this is all about.

If they want to share fun facts about their own life. What people do in companies are just asking, who is going for a walk with me during lunch break that would for me go to Viva Engage. That's some more social. Oh, yeah, you are making some fun.

Jesus. Yeah, okay.

Yeah.

Why? So into the group of your friends?

into the company, just to the whole company.

So all companies probably a little bit.

More divided in the groups and all.

Of that, but so division.

Yes.

So you would say to your whole department, hey, I'm going out for a walk, guys, who's come with me?

Why not? You want to have somebody, you work.

So you would actually do that?

Yes.

So you would tell the rest of the organisation to do that as well?

Why not?

Because if you want to go for a walk, it's a personal one to one kind of thing or a team kind of thing.

Not always.

You just said not always. So that means you have two places that you would send that message?

No, I would only send it there. But people are just going for a walk to leave the office for 30 minutes, get some fresh air and maybe the other people want to join them instead of going all separately.

It's an interesting one. I don't know whether I agree with it, but it is an interesting one. Okay, so that would be for Engage?

Yeah.

would it be easy if I turn this around and say, okay, what kind of messages will you put on Engage? What kind of messages would you put on email? What type of things would you do for meetings? Is that easier?

I don't know.

I don't know either.

So.

But there is a workshop here.

There Is, for company wide news.

That is corporate news.

Corporate news. That Internet. SharePoint News.

Intranet.

Yeah, intranet, SharePoint News. I will place it in there and then,

But what is interesting is that you get better throughput through Engage than you.

Do through your intranet, depending on your company. Not everybody is that involved in Engage and sometimes people use Engage more like a Facebook then sometimes. Yeah, we're.

So we need to define this. I guess that's the thing.

Yeah. what I would, put in, as some kind of popups, alerts or something into your intranet is when maybe the electricity is going to be down or maintenance has been in the, some kind of building that you can say if people are working in the Brussels office, then there will be no power. So be aware of it.

I get this and I kind of agree with this, but I think the important thing is that as part of your adoption, you people need to understand what messages are going to go where.

Yeah, true. And, probably, teams will be the quick questions to one of your colleagues or a group of colleagues that you say we work with for a project and you need to have questions.

So teams chat.

Teams chat, yeah. or even teams channels, depending on how it's being set up. If it is really a project you need to work on, then.

It'S maybe important what you've just said. You've said if I want to have a quick chat with somebody, so it needs to be if I want to send somebody file, let's share it on OneDrive is kind of thing. So OneDrive is individual chat is individual.

Yep.

Group chats. I like this, but we haven't got time to answer this question now. No, but I think we need to build the matrix.

I think so as well.

And then we need to build up a set of criteria to decide which company uses under what conditions. And then we need to sell the workshop for €1,000 a day per. It's an interesting one because as you say, I think there's both sides of this. You make a decision about something and then you have to work out the adoption, both for, entering content in and also reading it and prioritising it on the way out.

And not only that, also make sure that you set up the tools correctly.

Yeah, well, that's driven by your governance. What I'm talking about is this is the governance for communications within the organisation and then you, configure the tools.

It's a little bit like we said when we were driving home from commsource the workshop we were talking about like going back to basics.

Yeah, yeah. But this is not more than that. Isn't it? This is about understanding how a company communicates and then defining so it stays and doesn't change.

It's also one of the basic aspects because communication for a company is so important. So everybody should know how your company is communicating. And now it's a mix of everything as we see in many companies, as you in your previous life as a consultant, me and my life as a consultant. You see, so many different things.

Agreed. That's an interesting question.

I think going back to a clear governance and rules and decisions about this is important.

Yeah, I think so. But I also think how do you define that governance for a particular organisation in terms of what they do and what they work well with? That's a great one. We haven't got our answers now. We haven't got a basis to base it off. But it's.

We have plenty ideas for the future to work with.

Yeah, no, that's good. Well there we go. From those huge numbers of emails and from that wonderful 15 hours spent a week doing my emails, that part of that 370 billion emails that get generated of which 83% get delivered on top of all the phone calls that we haven't even got numbers for and I'm not going to even think about and the messages that make things happen. We are about communications. But I do believe an AI phone that sorts it out for you is the answer.

M so next week the AI phone is coming out.

Yep, it will be available for fun. Okay guys, I really hope you enjoyed this. It's Steve Dolby signing out. Interesting conversation. Second time of trying. But it worked this time.

You hope.

I hope.

Have you checked?

Just sit and say goodbye.

All right, bye bye everyone. Sa.